We have all seen (those of us who are contractors have anyway) the consulting "big boys" swallow up all of the Talend projects and then sub (sub sub sub sub sub .....) contract us to do the work. This way of working does not benefit anyone but the behemoth consultancies who would otherwise be floundering in the Talend world. There are several very talented Talend developers who frequent this site. The are plenty of people who are relatively new to Talend who use this site to develop their skills. It seems ridiculous to me that this collaborative forum cannot be used to bring us together (bypassing recruitment consultants and the consulting "big boys") to benefit us, Talend and those who have Talend projects that need resourcing. I am interested in bypassing these middle men and owning the Talend space with fellow Talend experts. If you are a Talend professional and interested in removing middle men from your fee, get in touch.
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This is a huge advantage of Talend and at the same time biggest problem :-)
Big Consulters - it not a problem at all,
Real Big Consulters or have those own teams, or have a long term relations with somebody, or open normal projects on upwork.com or similar sites.
The problem as usual come from some "consulters" - they sit 24Hr in internet (what is not possible for single person), they have excellent proposal templates and catch all projects.
In best case they after open new "projects" like teach me Talend or "online consultant for 1Hr" :-) this is in best case ...
and than we meet them here with questions like:
- could You show me how todo this?
- sorry, but Your advice not work for me, could You fix it?
- thanks, but also please add this feature
and community step by step make for them projects :-)
they never search the forum, even if solution already in the topic, for them time is money and they just hope somebody answer right what they are looking for.
It also not a problem,
the problem is - most of them do not share anything back to forum after study ... :-)
The problem I was referring to @vapukov is the fact that a big consultancy will swallow up projects with absolutely no expertise in Talend and then sub contract experienced consultants to do the work. The fee for the big consultancy is £1000 a day, the fee for the consultant is £500 a day. The experienced Talend consultant is then responsible for all design and development (and hand holding graduates that are used to simply fill seats on the project), while the project goes down as being done by the consultancy. They then walk away with a project success which they use to sell their services to other Talend clients. However they may not get that original consultant back. They settle for someone who is not as good and some of their staff that have picked up a few skills. The project ends up in a terrible state and then the Talend product is blamed.
I have seen this from having worked for Talend (in Professional Services) and having worked for myself (for the past 4 years). I am suggesting that a team of experienced Talend contractors team up and really own the Talend domain. There are advantages to every entity involved with Talend except for those who play on the fact that the Talend market is relatively under-skilled.
I'm a recruiter and I do understand where this idea is coming from. Hiring process and how things supposed to be it is nothing but a wish list. Hiring process is not revolving only around business side and at least 50% of success getting a job depends on a personal side. A good recruiter has an idea of specifics that a given client has and is able to give plenty of tips to a candidate regarding an interview process on both technical and personal side and what to pay attention to during an interview. There are so many IT guys who had applied on their own and got no response from a company because they had no clue how to present themselves. Good recruiting firms learn as much about their clients as possible and can help dramatically
I'd like not to have the rather cynical view of the expression "good recruitment firms" that I have, but experience tells me that most are simply opportunistic middle men. I'll give you a couple of examples of why I believe this......
1) As a candidate, I was once asked to describe "polymorphism". I gave an accurate answer which was tailored to the understanding of the individual I was talking to. Clearly not a computer scientist. I was told I was wrong because I hadn't recited the definition that he had Googled. When I explained how my definition (or analogy, to be more precise) aligned with his Googled definition, I was told that I had still given the wrong answer. A complete lack of understanding of the domain and poorly understood buzz words bandied around, is rife in the IT recruiter domain.
2) As someone recruiting (using 4 agencies), I quickly realised that my requirement for an "experienced Talend DI and ESB developer" was being met with the offering of "Google 'Talend', search LinkedIn for 'Talend' and pebble dash all our contacts with pleading emails offering a reward". I was contacted through my website by 2 of the recruiters and messaged through LinkedIn by nearly all (... even offered a reward for suggesting the right person!?!?). They all knew who they were recruiting for. The CVs I got back were largely people who had a couple of months of Talend as an after thought, and certainly no "experts". Some of the candidates I saw clearly didn't have ANY real experience of data integration at all. I decided to help. I gave the recruiters some questions to ask.....but didn't give the sort of answers I expected. The intention was to judge who I wanted to see from their unprompted answers. On one memorable occasion I got back a couple of answers from one recruiter which interested me. One of the answers was perfect. Nailed. The other was so wrong that it could very well have been an answer by Donald Trump being questioned about his thoughts on appropriate ways to communicate with the opposite sex. This obviously raised suspicions about the "right" answer. So, I used a very basic trick where I copied the emailed answers, pasted them in Google, quoted them and clicked "Enter". For each answer I found a tutorial post (the same website) where the candidate had copied the text word for word. 100% for Googling, but 0% for knowing anything about Talend. 0% for the recruiter who could have spent the 5 minutes that it took me to identify a plagiarist. A simple comparison of the written English in their CV and the English in their answers should have raised suspicion. This was for a role where we were offering a daily rate at the top end of the rates advertised by recruiters.
I have other examples of incompetence (it is kind of a running joke amongst decent contractors to be honest), but the thing I think really "grinds my gears" is the 20% that recruiters take for clearly (in many cases, I've not met every recruiter) just wedging themselves between candidates and opportunities. Over the course of a project, that 20% can make up a lot of money which far exceeds the value of the work invested by the recruiter, massively reduces the money made by the entity carrying out the role and significantly increases the costs incurred by the company employing that entity. Removing the "middle men" could reduce the total cost by 10% for the client and increase the earnings of the contractor by 10%. We have the internet. We have LinkedIn. Any candidate who needs to be told how to get through an interview needs to go to a few interviews, get knocked back, get feedback and brush up on their interview skills (....by the way, this perception that IT "geeks" are socially inept individuals who can only think in 0s and 1s is somewhat of a stereotype).
After all that, my post wasn't really meant to have a dig at recruiters. This was actually meant to get an idea of the interest from Talented Talend individuals who might consider clubbing together to become (to paraphrase Aristotle) "[A] whole [which is] greater than the sum of its parts".
I completely agree with Richard. From my point of view, the problems are, breaking the chain (company - recruiter - consultant) first, and second, making the consultants more visible and accessible to the companies.
@robegf I believe we can make consultants more visible and accessible to companies between us here. I could quite comfortably argue that a high percentage of the best Talend talent spend a fair amount of time in this forum. Maybe the "Employers, Recruiters and Candidates" section of this forum can be tweaked to really promote Talend talent (permanent or contractors) and we can draw our customers'/employers' attention to this forum when they are looking for Talent. There is more than enough data on Talend talent in this forum which could quite easily be used to give KPI information about candidates (if they opt-in of course) and this could easily be made directly available to employers seeking those skills. Talend could also point their customers to this forum to get them started, knowing that they are pointing them towards a resource which they have some sort of control over. Their customers could get good skills at a much lower cost.
Great suggestions @rhall_2_0 we'll certainly take them in and discuss. I should note the Talend team is definitely pushing everyone to the community site.
Great suggestion and good timing! It's one of the things we're actively discussing. We should have an answer very soon.
A good idea. Let me know when the goal becomes a reality. I could do this by narrative essay definition. So that your idea has entered the masses.
Watch this space. It is an idea that I had while I was consulting and was not working for Talend. That idea has not gone away ;-)
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